Retention marketing is crucial for any business. 

When the economy is thriving, you need retention marketing to cut through the clutter and help you stand out. 

When times are tough, as they may be in the near future, retention marketing is essential. During a recession, it’s critical to get the most out of your marketing efforts. 

The most effective way to accomplish this is to maximize your Lifetime Value (LTV) through retention and loyalty marketing.

That’s why, at OMG, we launched email and SMS marketing as a service last year. (email growth@omgcommerce.com to find out more). 

In this episode, I had the pleasure of hosting Daniel Budai, a retention marketing expert and the founder of Budai Media. 

Here’s a look at what we cover: 

• The mindset shift needed to impact how you approach retention marketing and loyalty. 
• Why you are likely not emailing your list enough and how emailing LESS has the opposite effect. 
• How to maximize your results by combining SMS and email marketing.
• How to create a user-friendly loyalty program that incentivizes desired actions, such as referrals. 
• How to use postcards as part of your retention and loyalty efforts.

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Mentioned In This Episode

• Daniel Budai (LinkedIn)
• Budai Media
• Budai Media Email Marketing Checklist
• Stamped
• Loyalty Lion
• Yotpo
• Post Pilot
• Brett Curry (LinkedIn)
• Brett Curry (Twitter)

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Transcript:

Brett:

Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the E-Commerce Evolution Podcast. I'm your host, Brett Curry, CEO of Commerce. And today we're talking about a topic that is near and dear to my heart. This is something I'm a passionate believer in and that is retention marketing. We're going to go deep on email and SMS and loyalty programs and it's something that we've always been a believer about at OMG Commerce. We've been added it as a service, SMS and email a little over a year ago because we believe in it so much. And really as we look at what might be ahead or where we might be right now, when you're listening to this recession, difficult times struggle. You've got to be really dialed into your retention marketing, but I would argue even when times are great, you need good retention and loyalty strategies because when you have those, then you can be aggressive at the top of the funnel. And so today my guest is Daniel Budai, the fam founder of budai Media team of just under 30 people working in exclusively in retention marketing. Very sharp guy. Really excited to dive in and get into this topic. I think it'll be very helpful for you and it's always going to be always fun for me to talk about this topic. And so with that, Daniel, how you doing? Welcome to the show and thanks for taking the time.

Daniel:

Yeah, thanks Brett for the invite and for the great introduction and I'm very happy to be here and share some knowledge hopefully.

Brett:

Great. So really excited to dive into some tips and strategies and ideas and mistakes that people are making and really make this valuable for everybody that's tuning in. But first, how did you get into this? So kind of gimme your 32nd or 62nd background. How did you become a retention marketing specialist?

Daniel:

Sure. So my story actually starts with geology. I studied geology at the university.

Brett:

I had a dollar for every time I heard that I would have $1. Okay, good. Yeah, keep going.

Daniel:

So that's where my story started. Actually. I wanted to work in the oil industry, but I couldn't find a great job there. So I pivot into marketing, I think that's a 180 turn, let's say <laugh>. That was a U-turn. And I started out with sales copywriting at the beginning. I really liked it, but I never really wanted to be very professional and one of the best in copywriting. I much preferred building a team around me, managing people, working on strategy. So that's how we started our agency around four years ago. And by now we grew to almost 30 people all over the world and we mostly work with US based and Canadian clients, e-commerce clients, and we help them to increase the lifetime value of their customers with different strategies with different marketing channels.

Brett:

I don't think you could get any more opposite from rocks and oil to digital, online marketing, e-commerce very, very tangible and analog. Very, very digital and virtual soup. Super interesting, but love that you made that pivot and love that you're having this kind of success. So let's dive in. We're both in similar spaces, OMG commerce is all D to c e-commerce, we do retention marketing as well. So I'm thinking about this a lot myself, but what are some of the top retention marketing mistakes that you see DDC brands making?

Daniel:

Yeah, that's a great question and I think before I start sharing some knowledge on this. So I think it really matters the level of the company where they are because with smaller companies, startups or companies just starting out, let's say below 1 million per year in revenue, I think they miss out on several tactics that they could use. So one of the most common mistakes is that they don't really segment their email list. They just blast emails and everyone gets the same emails. So it's not very personalized, the experience. The other thing is they just simply don't send enough emails. I remember when I had one of my first clients, I sent out only one email to the list and then I was like, okay, what if I sent twice a week and surprise we doubled the revenue and then I was, okay, what if we send out four a week and then guess what happened? We doubled the revenue again. So the formula was very simple. Of course you cannot do it, you know, cannot double your revenue all the time with this thing. But many companies, they are afraid to email their list and they miss out on this opportunity. So

Brett:

Yeah, one thing, I wanna just talk about that for a second, Daniel, cause I love this. I point a lot of people think that if they email too much, they're going to get a lot of unsubscribes and people are going to be upset and turned off and they're going to leave. But usually the opposite is true. The more you email to a point, the more people are engaged, the more they know you see your name, they feel connected to your brand. If you shift to the point where you're only emailing once a month or once a quarter, I know some brands that are doing that, then really all you're doing is you're reminding someone to unsubscribe. You get this random email and you're like, wait a minute, I don't remember signing up for that and I don't even really remember who you are. And so people unsubscribe.

So in a lot of ways, sending less leads to more unsubscribes. And yeah, we're big believers in that at least once a week, plus all your flows and everything. But ideally you can do more than that. And I know some brands, some influencers that email daily and that works, that can absolutely work for a brand. So sending more frequently is almost always a good idea for any size brand. And especially when you are segmenting your first point, segmenting and speaking directly to that customer, then they want to hear from you more, which is great. Okay, cool. So those are top two mistakes not segmenting, not setting enough. What are some other mistakes?

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah. So simply the volume and the segmentation can be a differentiator. When companies, they start out, I know many founders, they don't have time to write their emails or their marketing manager, but email has a great roi. So this is something they should take

Brett:

Ar arguably the best, arguably the best o ROI of any single channel out there. Nothing really beats email

Daniel:

And same applies for SMS marketing, but now let's stick to email more. So these are the two most common mistakes I can see. Probably the third would be to set up email flows at least five below 1 million a year. So set up these email flows because they are automated and even if you don't touch them in the next one year, they will still work and generate revenue for you. So it's a one time thing and then they work automatically. And then if we talk about a bit bigger companies, let's say middle one to 10 million a year, then I think segmentation is still an issue. Many of them, they still blessed emails, the same emails to everyone, same creatives. I think volume nowadays, they are aware of that kind of thing that it's important. They hire someone, they hire an agency, they hire a copywriter, they take care of that. I think probably the biggest issue that is just being organized. So having a content calendar, campaign calendar or sales event. Also, one thing that everyone should apply is having at least one sales event every month because you want to give an opportunity for your list subscribers to buy from you. And in e-commerce, we all know that it's crucial, you want to have a holiday Black Friday, Christmas, but even in months like January, you want to have something like International Dog Day. If you sell dog products or you can't make up holidays, actually totally,

Brett:

There's a holiday for anything. I'll just Google it. There's a holiday for literally anything or make up your own, which is totally acceptable.

Daniel:

Yeah, yeah. So you can make up something, but this is huge in e-commerce. Like come up with a chance, give them a chance to buy from you and you should really internalize this mindset I think. And then people, they will come back again and again and

Brett:

Yeah, I love this. And one thing I would wanna underscore too when it comes to this monthly sales event is that this can apply also if you're a brand that does not discount. And we have a number of clients who either don't discount or they only discount around the holidays and maybe one other time per year. But what you can do is have that annual, or I'm sorry, monthly event. And it can be for anything. Grandparents day, mother's day, kid day, national donut Day. There's all kinds of, there's really a holiday for anything. But you can do free gifts. We know a couple of brands that they will utilize premium gifts and include a gift with purchase. And the gift is often a high perceived value, so likely the same as if you're given a 20% discount or something. It actually costs them less to fulfill it. But then it also has the benefit of it's not training someone to wait for the discount, it's teaching someone to pay full price. So that's a great way to do it. Another way you can do it is bundles, bundling different products and making it convenient by bundling. And then someone's going to maybe just pay the same rate, but now they can buy the bundle and they get all that they want and it's easy, it's easier to shop. Yeah,

Daniel:

You could link, I would add one more, which

Brett:

Is my prescription. And that's cheaper if you're doing subscriptions cuz then you can do a discount there and it doesn't feel like you're cheapening your product. But yeah, go ahead Daniel, you got get an idea to add

Daniel:

To that. Yeah, I mean I think discounts, they can really devalue your brand as well if you use it too much, right? And if you use it, make sure that they get the discount for something. So for a certain action, yeah, you shouldn't just give a discount for no reason, right?

Brett:

Get a discount for subscribing, get a discount for joining our email list. So doing sub subscription products or join our email list or something like that. Love that idea. And I also love that you pointed out a promotions calendar, a marketing calendar. This is something we talk about all the time with our clients at omg. And this is important because ideally what you want to have happen is you want all your marketing to be coordinated. So if you're doing this big sales event for, I'm not sure why I'm thinking donuts it is morning time when I'm recording this. So maybe I got donuts on the brain, but National Donut day for your brand or whatever, an alternative to donuts, if you're going to promote donut day you want your Facebook ads, your Google ads, your remarketing ads, your email, your sms, all of it to be coordinated around that event as best as possible. And the way you do that is through a marketing calendar and making sure all your team and all your agencies are communicating and on board with that. And it just makes a huge difference. So I'm really glad you brought up, I brought that point. And I would also say and you highlighted this, I think there's still bigger brands. We mostly work with bigger brands at omg, bigger brands that aren't segmenting and that aren't sending enough either. So gotta look at those things. But any other big mistakes that you see D two C brands making

Daniel:

And let's say above 10 million a year. What I can see is that they actually over complicated things. So that's the other end of the spectrum. They do segmentation, they send many campaigns, but they over segment actually, they could spend their resources in a better way. And actually when we start working with these clients, and many of them, they already have 20, 30% of their revenue from email marketing and the SMS marketing, all of these channels, loyalty programs. And actually we come in and we just simplify everything we cut. Sometimes we cut like 70% of the flows and we can increase their revenue, the percentage of their revenue from these channels, from 30% up to 50, 40, 50%. So actually it's also an organizational program problem, but here we have to simplify things. Can you see the same thing with your bigger clients? They over complicating?

Brett:

Yeah, that does happen. And I think that this becomes really important, especially as you're scaling. So you're going that 10, 20, 50, a hundred million you have to be organized enough for short and all the teams have to be on the same page and communicating well. But you can get over optimized or overly segmented and you're not doing yourself any favors. We see this a lot on the Google remarketing side, and we used to be guilty of this too. We would create all these different list, all these different duration segmentations, a one day list, a three day list, a seven day list, a 14 day list, a 30 day list, a 60 90. And then we do all these segments and stuff. We still often build those audiences, but for a lot of brands, sometimes you just lean into the one, three and seven day audiences and that's where you get 90% of the benefit.

And so sometimes less is more, and simplifying things a little bit really does make a big impact. And one thing I might add to Daniel, that this is a mistake that I see, and this is more mindset and strategic than it is tactical, but I think a lot of brands make the mistake of overestimating how much customers are thinking about them. And I think this is part of why people understand emails. They're like, well no, we just don't wanna overwhelm them. They're not thinking about you, they're not thinking about you today. They're thinking about all the stuff they gotta do. So you've gotta break through the clutter and email them more if you want them to think about you at all. Right? But we also begin to think, well, hey, they've already bought for me one time, they'll be back, our products are good, they've purchased from us, they will be back.

Not necessarily. So there's so many things competing for people's attention ads on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, email, everywhere. So you've gotta still fight to get that customer back. And then a lot of times people think, well if they've been to my store before I don't need to be aggressive to get them back. But you do. You need to be aggressive to get someone to come back because again, competition is fierce. People aren't thinking about you, they're thinking about their own life and their own problems. And so having that mindset of we don't wanna annoy people, but you've got a culture or you've gotta nurture and cultivate that relationship and be very intentional about it and do so in a way that builds your brand and compliments your brand. But yeah, people aren't thinking about you all the time. You're thinking about your own company, which just kind of makes sense.

Daniel:

And I can see the same thing with different marketing channels. So yeah, most mostly with SMS marketing. So I can see so many business owners to be afraid of using SMS marketing. We will annoy people, we send out too many text messages and in most cases it's not a problem. And same with loyalty program. They are just afraid to be everywhere using an omnichannel strategy. And actually the good thing is you can measure everything. So you can measure the spam rate, unsubscribe rate, you can measure literally everything nowadays, almost everything. So you should just track the right KPIs on them. It'll be fine.

Brett:

Yeah, I remember one of the lessons I learned from an old radio advertising guy, a guy named Roy Williams, wrote a book called The Wizard of Ads. It's pretty great, pretty great for copy and persuasion and stuff. But he talks about how once you get to the point where you are sick of hearing your message or where you think feel like it's overwhelming, like, oh gosh, we're everywhere. I'm sick of seeing my own brand sick of seeing that's about when people are noticing you, right? Yeah. So when it's annoying, it's probably just beginning to break through the clutter. And again, you don't wanna pester people or have the exact same message, be fun, mix it up, be creative, but you know almost can't overcommunicate if you don't feel like you're overcommunicating, you're probably under communicating. And so that's important to, that's

Daniel:

A yeah.

Brett:

Yeah. Cool. So we talked about some mistakes. What are some next level strategies? So what are some of those, either email or SMS strategies that just not a lot of people are doing, but they should be?

Daniel:

Yeah, sure. So I think email marketing, I can see the market is really educated on this topic. It was very different four or five years ago, but I'm happy to see that this completely change, I think. So nowadays we also focus on more SMS marketing loyalty programs, push notifications, and we even send out physical postcards, believe it or not. So we add more marketing channels and we sing them together. Basically. I think SMS marketing, it really has its renaissance in the US now, and it's probably one of the highest ROI marketing channels I can see. So use SMS marketing, we usually use one or two text messages per week. And during Black Friday we send out even more. I think what you could do is really combine it with email marketing. So for example, in your text messages, you can refer to your email tomorrow or in your email, you can refer to your text message like tomorrow we are sending you a gift. And if you want to know what was that was this v i P thing, then subscribe to our SMS list. So you can really combine it two channels. And then there is the loyalty program, you can implement that too.

Brett:

And let's what I talk about SMS for a minute, and I'm really excited to talk with loyalty programs too. Cause that's something we don't do at omg, and I'm really curious to pick your brain on that a little bit. But on the SMS side we take a very similar approach. It's kind of that one to two times per week on sms. I think you can overcommunicate on text just because it is a little more personal. Basically every people open all of their texts, but that one to once to twice a week I think totally fine. But I love that combination where you are mentioning, Hey, did you get the email? Did you get this offer? Here's a link to it, right? So what are you guys seeing on your end when you layer in SMS marketing on top of email? How does that change growth and conversion rates and and ROI on the retention campaigns?

Daniel:

So I think this is the real power of retention marketing, not just email being alone because it's really a kind of situation, one plus one equals three. I think they really add up together. And if we implement, so let's imagine we have a new client, an e-commerce store, and then if we implement the first few email automations, we can get to 10, 15% extra revenue with these automations. If we add email campaigns, this can go to 20, 30%. If we add SMS marketing, then we can add an additional 5%. But here the numbers, they can be more extreme. So here's an example. We have a US based kitchenware store and we generate 30% of revenue from email and 30% from sms. Wow. In q4. So the same.

Brett:

That's

Daniel:

Huge. 6% altogether. That's huge. And

Brett:

Yeah,

Daniel:

Go ahead. And one more thing, because I know people, they are skeptical, so it's not because we use some very early pop up on the website or some gimmicks with the attribution. I know all of those, we don't do these. I think we have a very conservative mindset on attribution, but we still got these numbers with the seven figure store.

Brett:

Yeah, I love it. And then we look at it where if you're running a D two c, e-commerce brand and email and SMS aren't touching in that 30 to 40% of revenue, then you need to be doing more, right? And you probably need to rethink your strategy and your tactics. And I would agree with you, I love attribution. I'm also a top of funnel guy. I believe in the power of YouTube and Facebook and TikTok and other channels for top of funnel. And if all we did was focus on bottom of funnel, eventually our brand's going to dry up and we're going to run out of customers. So really, I wouldn't say that you could give full credit necessarily to email or SMS for 40% of your revenue, but it should be at least touching that much or at least should be a part of the journey for at least 30 to 40% of your revenue. If not, you're likely not doing enough and you are leaving sales on the table that are not closing because you're not doing enough with email and sms. So love that. All right. So let's talk loyalty campaign. So well first of all, how do you approach it? And then gimme a few, your next level strategies there.

Daniel:

Do you mind if I share another strategy or tactic regarding SMS and email

Brett:

Please? Yeah, before we go

Daniel:

To loyalty. Yeah, because this just came to my mind. So we have a few clients, and I really like these clients because they understand the importance of L T V. So they ran Facebook ads to a landing phase.

Brett:

And just to clarify there again, you said L T V, right? Lifetime value. Yeah. Okay, awesome. Yeah,

Daniel:

Exactly. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Customer lifetime value. So we worked together for a few years and I really like these guys. They really understand what we stand for as an agency and we really good clients. So they ran Facebook ads during Q4 and Q3 to a landing page where people, they could subscribe to the SMS list, v i p, early bird, early bird, black Friday list on SMS and email as well. And then we send these people regular emails in an email flow in Clavio and we could generate a big part of their sales before Black Friday with these early bird offers. And then Black Friday came and then we generated even more, but I think we collected a few thousand emails and contacts. And I think each email and contacts, it generated like 20, $20 in November. So I wanted to mention this because many people, they just drive the traffic to the product page or to the website, but here we really collected emails and then we converted them in the upcoming months. So I think that's still something very undervalued

Brett:

Now. Yeah, I love it. And think about that. So you're generating $20 in sales from one email address captured. Think about how that could change the math for your Facebook and YouTube campaigns. If you could start getting four or five or 10% of people to visit a page to opt in now and now you're getting $20 potentially per signup, that changes the math. That changes how aggressive you can be with your top of funnel strategies and you can push the envelope more and you can grow faster when you have those things dialed in. So love that. Thanks for mentioning that. Awesome. So loyalty campaigns how do you set them up? What are some of your next level strategies there?

Daniel:

Sure. So I think probably the biggest mindset mistake, let's say or mindset shift that everyone should have about loyalty. Many companies, they think about it just as a tool. You know, install this software, you plug it in, and then it'll generate loyal customers. But people, they are more complex than this one. Plugin and play two won't change their behavior. So you should really think about the strategy there. You should actively promote your loyalty program everywhere. Just look at the big brands, they do it really well. So the software is one thing, but you should be tactical about this, how you do it. There are several ways we usually customize it to the brand that we work with. But just a few recommendations. So I think where you should start, you can give them points based on their behaviors and probably referral is the most important.

You want to generate a good word of mouth. And then what we also do, we create a leaderboard so people, they can see where they are, how many points they have and other people, how many points they have so they can actually compete. It usually generates a very good competition between people and you should be creative what you give to them. So not just a discount or gift card, but you can do other things like again, I think you can take a look at big brands and you can get really good ideas. I think on Netflix, there is this movie now where Pepsi promised Jet or an aircraft and then there was a real guy who collected the points and he claimed the jet. And wow, of course he couldn't get it. But that's a crazy idea. That's sometimes crazy ideas for loyalty programs. They are really good.

Brett:

So you gotta have software. And then I think this is one of those things, and again, I'm not a loyalty expert, but I've talked to a lot of people that run 'em and stuff, but seems like it's gotta be relatively simple. They can't be overly complex or no one's going to really pay attention. Yeah, I love the fact that you've got rewards for the most important behavior, like sending a referral, the most important behavior that someone could have arguably. And then I love that that transparency of a leaderboard showing mate who's winning, who's out in the lead creates that healthy competition and makes people want to jump into the lead, get more points and they get more points by taking the behavior, taking the actions that you want them to take. So any recommendations on software or structure there? And no worries if not. And I know this is one of those things where strategy and tactics are more important than the tools you use, but any suggestions on tools?

Daniel:

We tried many. So if you are a smaller company, try stem, do io. It's also very affordable and they have many features, right? If you want to get more stamp

Brett:

Io, is

Daniel:

That right? stamp.io? Yeah.

Brett:

Yeah, cool. I'll link to that in the show notes too. Stamped, do io. Cool.

Daniel:

If you want to get more advanced, then Loyalty Lion is a great choice. And you can also check out your pool because it's a more like a platform. So they have several different things. SMS feature, loyalty, even more referral program. So check out YoPo as well. These would be my three recommendations.

Brett:

Great. So stamped.io, we have a number of clients that use that. It could be a review engine as well. Loyalty line. I'm not familiar with that one, but sounds great. And then I met those guys back in their early days. Actually. I met one of the founders at a magenta event in like 2014, but they've exploded since then, so. Awesome. Let's quickly, and we're on the back few minutes here, the podcast, but I wanna talk push notifications and then postcards. Let's talk postcards first. Cause I think this is one of those unique things that people miss. And in full disclosure, I am an investor in post pilot so I do like that solution for postcards, but I know that there are other solutions out there as well. But how do you like to look at postcards and why do you recommend them

Daniel:

Postcards? Sure. So it's still something that we experiment with. It's not like email or SMS that we use it regularly with clients. I think it can be a good fit for certain e-commerce stores. In my experience, it works really well with the older audience. So about 50, let's say. They are more used to this type of communication. I wouldn't use this with Gen Z or not even with millennials nowadays. So that's one thing. And then of course you should check the cost of this service as well. We checked it in Germany and in the US and I think it's the best for some special and big promotions. So I would use it a few times a year. I think we used it for Easter because it was related to this brand. It's a gifting brand, and we used it for Valentine's Day, which is, I think you all understand why it's a good choice for that holiday. So we tested this out and I think we just really sent out a discount coupon code with a very nice postcard. We designed it and also we connected it with other channels. So we mentioned this in the emails in the sms that look out because you will get a postcard, it's only for VIPs. And that's how we used it so far. The ROI wasn't that great. So we are still experimenting with it, but I think it's a place where you can stand out because yeah, it's really underused drive. So

Brett:

Yeah, it is very much underused. And I'm a marketing guy from way back. And I remember in the early two thousands, late nineties, I was really young then, but I still remember going to the mailbox and it was just full packed to the hilt. And most of it was marketing mail or junk mail. And now that's not an issue. So if you run a postcard or send someone something in the mail, they get physical mail from you, it's going to stand out. And so one of the things that, I did an episode with Drew Sak from post pilot I, I'll post that in the show notes as well, but one of the ways they use it, and I think this is worth considering, is they put it in their flows. So especially for reactivating customers that have fallen dormant and they're not purchasing anymore. If you think about email, and we're all believers in email, obviously that's what this podcast is mostly about.

Still your open rate may only be 30% or so. So there's just a huge chunk of your list that not getting your emails. So postcards can help fill that gap. I think it makes a lot of sense. If you're doing a big event or a big sale, get that to everybody through the postcard. You gotta track the roi, you gotta see it, you gotta be able to measure it and make sure it's going to work for you. But I think it also, I just got an email or a postcard from Smart marketer, Molly Pittman, my friends Molly Ezra and I was like, wow, this is really cool. And it's sitting on my counter and I'll probably see it three or four times before I either use it or throw it away or whatever. But it, it's just that it's something different and it will drive action, but it also cuts to the clutter, which I think is pretty powerful. So

Daniel:

Cool. It also integrates with Clavio, and it's interesting that you mentioned you use it for reactivation because actually we use it for the opposite. So we use for VIPs. Mm-hmm. And our thinking was,

Brett:

Sorry, I think that works too. Yeah, yeah. Use it for VIPs or your biggest clients. Yeah, that works too.

Daniel:

Our way of thinking was that this is a more expensive channel than the others we talked about. So let's use it for the highest LTV customers. That was our approach. But it's interesting to try it for reactivation. I'm sure we will try it for that as well. Yeah,

Brett:

It can even be a step in the flow of a welcome sequence or an abandoned card sequence where if someone doesn't take action after the first two or three emails, you fire off a postcard and see how that works and can integrate into clavia, which is cool. So what about push notifications? Is this something I'm familiar with but something I'm not an expert in? How are you guys using push notifications and what kind of results are you're seeing?

Daniel:

Yeah, so honestly, push is really simple. So the logic is quite similar to SMS or email marketing. And there is a prom message on the website and on the phone as well. I think only Android enables it. So it's not good for iPhones but it's good for Mac. So only iPhones they have limitations regarding push but there is a pro message people, they can subscribe there. And then you can send out automations, like abandon, car abandonment, welcome message or even a veba. And you can also send out campaigns. And we usually send out two campaigns a month. So it's not that many and quite similar to SMS in terms of length. So you should keep it short and to the point. I think you can also add an image there. So it's more visual than sms, but it's quite similar and you can add a few percentage to your revenue with this marketing channel. So it's really an additional thing. And talking about software tools, again, so we use pushout for stores, but honestly I really miss a great push notification tool from the market. And I'm still looking for something and my whole team. So if you know anything, then push out. Yeah, then

Brett:

Yeah, I really don't. And I remember first talking to some really smart marketers that they'll love push notifications a couple years ago as a shopper, as a consumer, I never say yes to push notifications, I just don't want 'em. But I know a lot of people do same here. And so I know it's a valid tool for marketing, but I don't know of a good tool either. But that's super interesting. Yeah. Well, Dana, this has been awesome, man. Lots of good insights. You're true pro. I know you guys run an amazing company. Any resources, tools, anythings you offer as an agency that we should mention to listeners?

Daniel:

Sure. So on our website we have many resources. We also have a podcast. Actually I invited you in my podcast.

Brett:

Yeah, it was on the podcast. Yeah, you do a great job, man. You're a great host.

Daniel:

That was a great conversation. Besides, we also have a blog. We have a lot of case studies, dozens of case studies, but what I would mention is we have a 50 point checklist about e-commerce retention and it's completely free. I think we can add the link to the description so they can find it, they can download it. Again, it's free and I hope it'll help you improve your own customer retention.

Brett:

Yeah, and we'll, we'll link to everything in the show notes, so check that out. But get that 50 point checklist. And Daniel, this has been super fun, man. I am with you. I am a big believer in retention and loyalty marketing. I think it's always important. I think it's even more important during difficult times or recessionary times. And I think it's what people need to focus on if we're pushing for profitability and pushing for overall health as a D two C company, you gotta get retention and loyalty, right? And when that's right, it opens up so many other opportunities for you. So Daniel, thanks for being so open and giving with your advice and thanks for taking the time.

Daniel:

Yeah, thank you. Thanks everyone.

Brett:

Awesome. And as always, thank you for tuning in. We would love to hear from you. So leave us at review on iTunes if you feel like we deserve it. Also I am now active on the socials, so hit me up on LinkedIn and on Twitter, on LinkedIn, on LinkedIn. I'm the Brett Curry on Twitter. I'm just at Brett Curry, but my commitment is I'm going to be active on social media. So find me there. Let's continue the conversation. Let's talk D to C and growth and good marketing and hopefully have some fun. So with that, thanks again Daniel, and thanks everyone for tuning in and with that. Until next time, thank you for listening.