Did you know that over 1 billion shopping experiences take place on Google alone each day? And that's not all – millions more transactions occur across platforms such as Facebook, Instagram, and Amazon.

Now, let me ask you a crucial question: Are your products making showing up on the ever-expanding "digital shelf," where eager shoppers are searching for their next purchase?

Enter feed marketing, the perfect blend of art and science, advertising and merchandising.

Feeds serve as the lifeblood for Google Shopping Ads (PMAX) and Facebook ads, a foundational framework for eCommerce brands. By leveraging feeds, you can amplify all other marketing efforts and drive better results.

Jacques van der Wilt is a renowned leader in shopping feeds, a mentor to startups, and an accomplished entrepreneur. As the CEO of DataFeedWatch, he spearheads a global feed management company, optimizing product listings across 2000+ shopping channels in 60+ countries. With a wealth of leadership experience in the US and Europe, Jacques is a sought-after speaker at industry events and a respected mentor at Startup Bootcamp. His expertise and dedication continue to shape and inspire the online merchant community.

In this interview, we discuss:

• Common feed mistakes that keep your products off the digital shelf and unavailable to eager shoppers.
• How a sporting apparel company increased clicks by over 200% with better product titles.
• Optimizing your efforts as you go (based on results).
• Giving shoppers AND platforms (Google, Facebook, etc.) what they want so that you attract more new customers.
• What Dynamic Prospecting is, and how optimized feeds can fuel new customer acquisition.

‍

Transcript:

Brett:

Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the E-Commerce Evolution Podcast. I'm your host, Brett Curry, CEO of OMG Commerce. And today we are talking about optimizing the digital shelf being wherever your customers are during the millions of shopping experiences that happen every day online of this is part merchandising, part marketing, and all cash producing, business building info that should be extremely helpful and fun. And so my guest today is an expert on this topic of feed-based marketing and optimizing for the digital shelf. I've got Jacques van der Wilt on the show today. He's the c e o and founder of Data Feed Watch. And he was just telling me before we record that he and I go back to 2016. So that's when OMG first became a client of Data Feed Watch. So it's a tool we've used for a long time with a lot of different clients and it's been a wild ride and hard to believe that's been over seven years ago. And so with that, Jacques, welcome to the show and how you doing man?

Jacques:

Great, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. I am, I'm doing very well. How are you?

Brett:

I'm doing great. Doing great. Excited to be here. Love this topic. And I think this topic, it can be a little boring if you're not careful, but it can be extremely exciting and extremely beneficial if we approach it the right way, which is what we're going to do today. So now you, first of all, thank you for being flexible. We're in very different time zones right now. I'm in the Midwest in Missouri and you are in Amsterdam. And so it is evening your time right now? No,

Jacques:

It's 5:00 PM Indeed.

Brett:

Oh, okay. Okay. So not crazy morning time for me. 5:00 PM for you Exactly. But yeah, excited to be chatting. So I want to kind of frame the topic this way. If we think about merchandising, let's think about a physical store. So if I own a shop, I'm thinking about where do I put my products, what products do I select in the first place? So what products am I showcasing on the shelf? How am I positioning these products? I think about product packaging and lighting and placement and again, where traffic is and things like that. And then I want to think about optimizing. I'm going to be measuring for sales and sell through and optimizing that as we go. And that that's a real science. And that's why if you go to Walmart or Lowe's or whatever stores you're, you go into changing stuff all the time, moving products around, changing end caps, moving stuff from one shelf to another because they're trying to optimize for shopping experiences.

And if we look at the online shelf, let's just take Google as an example cause I'm a Google guy, we're a Google agency. Over a billion shopping experiences daily happen across Google Properties. That's across search shopping, YouTube, the display network all over Google, a billion shopping opportunities per day. That's a lot of eyeballs, that's a lot of opportunities to get your product in front of people that are either actively shopping or at least looking in your category or fit the criteria that make them a decent customer. And so lots of opportunities and obviously there's millions of shopping opportunities on Amazon daily and on Facebook daily. And so we're going to dive in and talk about how do we think about this in a digital space. And a lot of that goes back to your feed, the product feed and how you structure it, optimize it and again, try to get your price in front the right people. So with that Jacque, first of all, do you want to give just your background really quickly, just kind of 30 seconds or so, how did you start Data Feed Watch and what did you do right before that?

Jacques:

Well, that's a good question, Brad. About 15, no, 12, 15 years ago I started a company called Word Watch and it did automated bit management for Google text ads. Nice. And you are going to be fil rich and everyone would want it and it would work like crazy. And actually did in a way she said, we found out that small customers didn't have enough statistically relevant data in an age that algorithms weren't even around. And very large customers were like, I want bells, whistles, levers, stuff to decide instead of, so how much would you like your CPA to be? So while we were focusing on the mid-market and growing our business, Google came up with something they called product listing ads. It was a funny new thing. Instead of the text says they would show an image of product and below it would say what the product was and would even show the price and you could click it, it would take you straight to a page where you could buy the product. And we were like, okay, great, you we'll do that. We start optimizing the drill, us being Google Cowboys and yeah, so we told customers, so Google shopping or product listing ads are included and will manage your campaigns as well. Of course we did it manually. We then, yeah, we had automated anything yet

Brett:

Everything was manual man. Those were the good old days of bidding up, bidding down. We used to have spreadsheets and we'd run calculations and we'd bid up a penny down a penny on a couple products. And those were fun times.

Jacques:

Exactly. So while we were figuring out how to do that, it wasn't that hard. We could possibly automate it. We got totally nuts of the that for every customer we would have problems getting us product data into something called the Google Merchant Center. And with that conversation on the phone saying, sure, you know, really need to have your price in that file you going to send to Google because otherwise you get nothing to sell. And you know, would've to go back to his web developer, how do we get the price into that feed? And it would take a month and the developer would charge him like 500 bucks. It would go nowhere.

So we figured, okay, this is not going to work. Maybe since we're already a tech company, we hack something together to solve some of the problems. So it took three months and we basically created a very rudimentary version of Data Fit watch with a rename and a combine and an anesthetic value. And we ran it for a while. And guess what? It solves like 90% of our problems. Like whoa, whoa, this is cool. We had looked before, is there a tool out there that can do this? First, there were several tools already and we didn't get it. There were complicated and we couldn't afford it either it was thousands of bucks a month where we are, we know we're talking to American retailers with a GMV of like $5,000 a month. So that was the pivotal moment. We are like, okay, maybe we should make this our core business, this little rudimentary tool and forget about the automated billing on Texas. Which in retrospect, Brett next week was

Brett:

A very good choice.

Jacques:

Rev, our 10 year end anniversary party

Brett:

In retrospect chose

Jacques:

You chose price you chose.

Brett:

Yeah, yeah. Well also if you think about anything that's like bid management has struggled because Google created their own systems based on data that we can't see and complex algorithms and machine learning and AI and nobody's pouring more money into those tools than Google. And so yeah, bid management now it's just better to give that to Google and to their smart bid algorithm. So I love this and a couple things again, and I think the way we got to frame this when you're looking at feeds is this is the digital shelf. This is being available for all those millions and millions of shopping opportunities that happen every day. And so first off, you got to have, are your products available to be on the shelf? It's not a limited shelf, it's an infinite shelf. But the first thing is if I want my products available, are they available? Will Google even show them? So are my products approved inside a merchant center? Are they meeting guidelines for Facebook and for all the other shopping channels that I can be on? And so let's dive in here. I want, I want to talk about what are some of the top mistakes you see? Cause I know over the last 10 years, and I'm sure hundreds of millions of products later, what are some of the common mistakes you see with data feeds that limit sales opportunities?

Jacques:

Well the most common mistakes are stuff forgetting to fill out the shipping data, which we do either in the data feed or in the gmt, Google Conversion Center. Lots of errors are incomplete data basically. So incomplete. I do not have a GTIN or I forgot to put in my image or I have a gtin, but it's the wrong format. So it's actually not a gtin. The incompleteness and the incorrectness incorrectness is the biggest failure. Yeah. However,

Brett:

Yeah. And it's so important to bring that up because that's not fun stuff like filling out the G 10 and global trade identification number or shipping information, that's just little paperwork stuff. And I'm air quote, so that's obvious. Obviously digital. But that's the kind of stuff that keeps your products in the stock room in the back. They're not on the shelf because they're just sitting there waiting. They're waiting for these details because Google will not show them without those details. Neither will other shopping platforms. And so you got to fix the little stuff to even have the shopping opportunity.

Jacques:

So are many, I dunno, there's an error for every field right there. The shipping and the images, those are very, very common ones. Also, the number of errors differs per shopping cart. So if from agen you're likely to have more errors than if you're on Shopify. I hope nobody kills me for that, but that's what the data shows.

Brett:

Yeah, no I think it's totally fine. And we, interestingly enough, in the early days of OMG commerce, as we were getting into e-comm a lot, we partnered with a Magento agency. So I, I've been around Magento, even met the two founders of Magento. A lot has changed since the early days. They were the leader like open source leader. And now I hardly hear anybody that's on Magento. Obviously it's Adobe commerce now, but more complex, more complex, more robust. So yeah, I don't think coming after you for making those comments, but it is more complex and so more room for errors typically

Jacques:

What I liked about your intro is said, well data feed optimization is young, potentially a boring topic. And I couldn't agree more. So maybe the biggest mistake that I've seen for 10 years in a row across the board is that a retailer understands he needs to send his data to Google, Facebook, Amazon, we 2000 channels in more than 60 countries. But he needs to send the data and he sees this as a burden. I have to do it, I have to do it every day and there's errors and need to fix those and don't how it's still going to take me. So it's a negative thing. But in fact defeat is a foundation of every single advertising campaign on any channel. Whether that campaign is successful or not depends. First of all, if there's a smart guy running your campaign

Brett:

Or gal Yep, exactly.

Jacques:

Somebody at owned commerce or whether data that goes into these campaigns is actually good. So it's an opportunity to make more money, to sell more products, to get a higher row as and a higher ROI for every retailer to tweak his data. And then fixing errors is certainly the first thing you going to do. Let's clean out the house, garbage in, garbage out. If you have a crap title, you will show an ad with a very crappy title. You don't want to do that if you do not get your availability. So you advertising products that are out of stock, but you got to tailor your feet to show that. It means that Google is going to show your ad, the customer is going to click it, we've all done it, clicking it to find out that the product is no longer available. And what does the consumer say? Oh these guys are stupid. They dunno what they're doing. So you just lost 75 cents on a click. Not the problem. The problem is that you lost a customer if not for life then if you remembers your name you will not come back because you guys are stupid, right?

Brett:

Yeah, yeah. You advertise a product that got the shopper all excited and now it's not available on your store. And it's so important to think about feed-based marketing. So Google shopping and on the Google side these feed-based ads can appear across the display network and inside of YouTube and the Google Discover app and even inside of Gmail and they can appear across Facebook and Amazon and all over. But these are the foundation of marketing. This is definitely wallet out traffic. This is when people are wanting to buy something and they're actively shopping. I love looking at top of funnel ads like top of funnel, YouTube and Facebook and even native ads and other things where we're trying to interrupt people that we think fit our ideal customer profile and draw them into our brand. But all of that is made better. If your feed marketing is on point, if feed marketing is working, then everything else gets better.

Remarketing is better dynamic, remarketing is better, shopping is better. But there's even in the old days, in the glory days of Google shopping, which we're just talking about back when you could get a 10 or 12 x return on ad spend or something like without trying, it was mostly just shopping traffic and that was it. Like search query based traffic. Now Google takes your products and they put them all over and there there's a thing called dynamic prospecting that Google offers, which a lot of people don't know about. And we all know about dynamic remarketing. That's where we shop for a product on a website. We don't buy it now we browse the web and we see that product everywhere. Well yeah, exactly. Dynamic prospecting. Those when Google says, I know that you Jacque are shopping for non-stick cookware and you haven't bought anything yet. And so I'm just going to start showing you feed-based ads across the display network and inside of Gmail and inside on of YouTube. But it's not for products you've seen before. It's for products that I think you'll be interested in. Dynamic prospecting. Well all of that is made possible by having a really good feed and for that feed telling Google and other platforms what your product is, who it's for, when they should show it care. And then it's positioning it in a way that the customer says, ah, I want that

Jacques:

Exactly. You you're spot on telling Google what it is that you sell. Yeah,

And be specific. Yeah, a big fan of less is more with one exception. When Google says, so what are you selling? More is more you tell them everything that you have. If you can do all optional fields and even more, that's great Cause the more data Google has to match your product data with the actual search query, the higher the quality of the clicks will be, right? It will drive down your conversion rate, it will drive, sorry, it'll drive up your conversion rate, it'll drive down your CPA just because you have great data. You didn't have great data in your shop. No, it was okay data but you optimized it and now it's great data that went to Google, they went to Facebook, they went to criteria, they went to Amazon advertising anywhere where you will find your customers.

Brett:

So good. Let's talk about what are the top opportunities. So if we're looking at feed based marketing and all the potential, all the opportunities that it has, what are the biggest levers we can pull? What are the greatest areas of opportunity?

Jacques:

We created something called a feed marketing report, Brett, we did it last year. We're going to have a new version in the full, we basically analyzed what are 20,000 online stores doing with the data feed. So the good news is they were doing the things that we said that would work, but now we have the data to show that it's not just, we're saying that optimizing title is good idea, but it's like the most popular optimization type across 20,000 stores in dozens and dozens of countries. And then why is the title the number one? So I mentioned earlier Google looks at the search query and they look at the data in the feed and then if someone is interested in buying a pair of jeans, then many of them will know I want to Levi's five one because it looks good to me, I want a blue one.

No like everyone and I'm a size C two and that's it. So he's not going to look for all other brands. He may enter a pair of jeans you and they will work, but often they'll just say, I want Levi's five one mens blue jeans size three, two, your title in your shop is probably 5 0 1, which is fine cause you are, you're on the Levi's section and the image is there. So it's a good title. But for Google you want to combine the brand, the product type, the gender, the color, the size into Levi's five one men's blue jeans size 32. And then Google says Hey, I got 50 ads for the search query but there's only three that have exactly the same makeup of the title as a search query. So this must be a good match for the consumer. So despite the fact that this guy is bidding not top dollar, I still show his ads cause I want to make the consumer happy. So by enriching the title you get more impressions. However, with that great match between the search query and the title, the consumer is more likely to click your ad cause it's exactly what you just entered. How you get a higher ctr, well guess what happens if he makes it to your product page, he's more likely to buy because you already went down the chain. It's what it came for. You already knew the price from the ad. So more impressions, high CT R and high conversion rate, that's a triple whamy by enriching your title. And

Brett:

When you get that higher clickthrough rate, the other advantage there. So you're getting really relevant traffic, you're showing up to the right people searching for products just like yours. When you get that higher clickthrough rate, Google actually rewards that. Google says Aha, people love this listing. And so they want to show it more. So if you can optimize for click through rate, that is another way to expand your reach. Google's going to show that ad more if they think that people like it. And I think there's this approach, and this is just what I've gathered from now talking to thousands of merchants and auditing hundreds of Google ads accounts, is that a lot of people look at merchant center or look at their feed and they're just like, man, I don't want to think about this, I don't want to stress over it. Just make this as easy as possible.

Just get the feed up there. Which understand you got to run a business but the return on optimizing your titles is massive and it multiplies and compounds your other marketing. So take your time on a title One example I'll give, and this totally ties into what you were talking about, a buddy of mine runs everyday California longtime client adventure business just north of San Diego, California. So it's like kayak tours but also apparel. They've got awesome apparel and so they've got a shirt, which is one of my favorites. It's a long time, it's a classic. It's actually called L classico and it's like California flag and it's got the California bear named Brutus. He is holding the surfboard. And so that's the name of the product L classico. Well, without any customization, without any feed rules, without a tool, you send that information directly from Shopify to Google and you're telling Google, here's my product, it's L Classico, that's it, that's not enough.

That's Google. And Google's good at reading images and Google can figure stuff out. They're smart. But I would agree with you, the more you give Google the better. Because Google doesn't get tired of data. They feed off that data, they make good use of it. And so it's better to say L classico, black men's Excel, t-shirt made in the usa. Some of these other things add to that because then you're going to show up in more searches. Google really knows what it is, they know when to show it. And so yeah, I totally agree. Optimizing the title, it's something you need to think about early, but it's also something you need to think about as you go optimize the title as you go. You were telling me about a sports apparel, I believe a sports apparel, a retailer who did some title work and got some pretty phenomenal results. Can you talk about that case study just a little bit?

Jacques:

No, absolutely. So the title optimization is crucial in the way that you said, and it actually is very simple because with a tool like the Fit Watch, you can simply combine seven fields in the right order and you're done. So if you understand it's important and you understand how to structure your titles, it's a one minute job. But how would you structure your titles? Well, so you can use common sense and for every industry there's like a standard to put the prototype first and then the size and it whatever. If you Levi's, you want to put the brand first. If you're a no name brand, you got to put the brand last. It won't even show in the ad, but it'll still be in the title. But the smartest way, yeah, we got an instinct use case there is to check out what your customers, the ones that are buying on your site, are actually searching for, right?

So one example was these guys were selling baseball gloves and they had, they're making good money, they had good titles, everything. But then one guy figured out, let me check out what these guys are actually looking for. It turns out that they're looking for, they were entering in search query where they were left hand or right hand throw. If it was for themselves, if for the kids it was supposed to be leather or some other kind of material, none of that ever made it to the title. Maybe leather in a material field, but that's it. So they start experimenting by putting those very terms into the titles of their baseball gloves and I think they like 250% up on clicks. It was mind boggling usually. Yeah, I'm not big fan of like oh 250% more clicks. But in this case, yeah, it made total sense.

And when I explain this to people, many will say, well I got 25,000 products. I'm not going to figure out what the series queries are for 25,000 products. Life's too short. I say you're right if you definitely not do that. But do you know what your 10 best selling products are? Well, yeah I do. So what percentage of your total sales debt? Well, it's actually 22%. Well how much time are you going to spend on finding out and optimizing the search queries ar and titles of 10 products? Well actually I can do that in an hour. Exactly. So it's not important to finish it for 25,000 products. It's important to get started with your 10 best selling and then your best selling category and then your second best selling category. Take a year, I don't care, but get started at the top and you'll see instant results.

Brett:

Yeah, I love that. Optimize the title. It makes all the sense in the world. And you know what a lot of people don't know too. And then again, I know I'm speaking about Google, but this totally applies whether it's Facebook shop or Instagram shop or other channels. But a lot of people will look at their Google shopping results are now performance max. Performance Max is kind of the king of Google shopping traffic now. But a lot of people will look at that and say, oh my return announcement's fine. I'm at a 200%, 300%, 400%, whatever fits for your business. But they're not looking deeper and they're not seeing that, oh you know what? Almost all the sales are coming from just a couple of products. Most of my other products are not visible. Most of the other products people are not seeing and it's because my feed is not optimized. The titles are not optimized where there's a lot of people that would want what you sell, but you are not giving it to them and so they're missing out. So title, totally agree, got to optimize it. What are some of the other biggest opportunities for growth?

Jacques:

Well, I told you before, right? I could talk for two hours, but we don't have two hours. So lemme just zoom in just one, two more. The other question I ask a lot of customers, would you like to advertise all your products? And they go, yeah, of course. And I say, well really. And then they start thinking, well actually 15% of my products is below 10 bucks at the gross margin on that, on average it's like two 50. The CPA is somewhere between two and three bucks. So actually I am losing money every time I sell something. So maybe I should stop selling products with a price less than 10. Or maybe I'm smart and I've already enriched my product feed with gross margin data. So now I know for every product, but the gross margin is either the amount or the percentage. So now I can start excluding based on gross margin just to make sure that the advertising money I'm spending will go to the products with a very decent margin. So excluding products is crucial. Exclude on based on title price availability, but look for the unprofitable or less profitable products and make sure that the money that you will no longer spend on the low margin product will go to another product. Now it'll automatically go to the products, whatever I margin simple math, just increase your ros. And why would you even care to sell all of your products? You want to make money. That's the business that we're using. And

Brett:

It makes sense. You have some products we carry because customers ask for it and we need to carry it. And they're great add-on products, but they don't make sense to advertise. There's not enough margin there or the price is too low to advertise. And so we can exclude that through custom labels, exclude that from our ads. We can also, but we can make them available to free list things across Google, which is not massive opportunity, but it is growing. There is a way to send a feed that to show up in free shopping areas across Google, which is nothing to sneeze at. And so that's an option too. So right, love this. We got titles, we got custom labels, understanding what products should we not sell, what price should we optimize? Let's, let's talk one more tip here cause I know we're running out of time. So

Jacques:

One more tip is a mind boggling statistics that I got from Google years ago. And the statistic is if you have a Google shopping ad on the serp, the search engine result page and a Google text ad, the customer is 90, that's 90 zero, 90% more likely to visit your site. That's their sta it's not mine. I didn't make it up. So what we've seen in the last years, in the last many years, everyone used to have tech sets and we've all moved to Google shopping makes total sense. Google shopping is the king of the hill, but we shouldn't have abandoned the tech sets, but we did because it's a lot of work, you know, need to set up this campaign. You can only partially automate it, it requires maintenance. So you're going for usage, do Google shopping, feed driven automation feed and done. However, we for example, offer a feed based text add server.

So that means that again, you know, create a data feed for Google text ads or for Bing text ads. And then four times a day we recreate a Google search campaign of that by automating it. You can create a unique single ad group for every individual product. Usually you'll stick this yellow all colors and sizes or even a single product type into an ad group. And you have a bunch of keywords and text sets for the entire group. Now you have one ad group with unique keywords and unique text ads created automatically. So obviously now that gives you from the long tail, from short tail to the longest possible till it enables you to create a campaign with not too much trouble. The maintenance with products are in stock, out of stock, new products, new product types is done automatically because it's feed driven. And if you can go so granular as to have unique text sets and keywords for every individual product, that is certainly going to drive up your r oi.

We see it a lot with booksellers, yeah, because they're selling boatloads of books. But I really like the customer. We once was selling second cars and he didn't even have a big budget, but he wanted to advertise anyway. But your cars is a disaster, right? Because you got dozens of brands and each brand has a dozen mix and then they have colors and different tires, different engine sizes. D So before you know it, you got a million variations. You don't want to create a taxed campaign for that manually, but automatically it works. So you're basically advertising your secondhand cars with the longest possible tail. Cause again, just like with the Levi's example, people know that they want a c F E from this year and that car. So they'll find it. And since it's so long deal, the cost per click is very low. So this guy became very successful in selling secondhand cars through Google Tech sets at a very small budget. And that's what automation can do for you as well.

Brett:

Yeah, I love it. And we all get excited about the new traffic channels. We get excited about TikTok and Instagram reels and then other things that are new and shiny and we should, as marketers, we should try those things. But sometimes we sleep on what's still really effective. And one of those is Google search. Google Search is one of the OGs, but it's so effective. And I love that you brought up that point. We see that over and over again. If you're just running Google Shopping or now if you're just running Performance Max, that's not bad. But if you have search ads, and those can be part of Performance Max, but we actually recommend separate search campaigns too. It will increase your click through rate, right? People, when people see the product listing ads of the shopping ads in a search results page, and then they see your text ad, it just adds confirmation.

It's more selling, it's more convincing that hey, you're trustworthy and you've got what people are looking for and you're worth a click. And so having it show up in both places makes both campaigns better. So I love that focus on search and consider feed-based search. If you got a large SKU count or complex catalog, it can make life easier. So Jacques, this has been tremendously fun, super helpful. I've enjoyed it immensely. If people are listening and saying, Hey, I'd like to check out data feed watch either for more information, cause I know you guys have reports that you published, we can link to those in the show notes. But either for information or to check out the tool, how can they find you?

Jacques:

Data feed watch.com. And indeed we have a super big block where you find ticks and tips and tricks on anything about data feed optimization. You'll find the feed marketing with super interesting stats that enables you to compare yourself against your competitors in a certain vertical or in a certain country or whatever. All the data's there. Or you can just simply get a demo or sign up for a free trial so you can try it out and see for yourself.

Brett:

Love it. I highly recommend it. Check it out. If you're looking for a solution, get your feed marketing right. And when you do that opens up all opportunities that makes every other marketing activity you do better. If you need a second set of eyes on your shopping or Pmax account, reach out to OMG Commerce. We're happy to chat, happy to help. And so with that Jacques, man, thank you so much for the time and we'll have to do it again sometime.

Jacques:

All righty. Well thanks for having me, Brett. It was a lot of fun. And to your audience, you guys have

Brett:

A great day. Awesome. Thank you. And as always, I appreciate you tuning in. We'd love your feedback on this episode or any episode you found valuable. And hey, if you're listening and you're like, this is such great information, share it with your community, share it with people you think might be interested or in forums or wherever you think people might like it, that makes my day, of course, but also helps other people out as well. And so with that, until next time, thank you for listening.

‍

‍