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In this tactical episode, OMG Commerce's Email Director Nick Flint reveals game-changing strategies to maximize what should be your most profitable customer acquisition and retention channel. With rising costs across advertising, shipping, and operations, Nick shares how leading brands are using email and SMS marketing to protect and grow their margins in 2025. Whether you're doing $2M or $50M in revenue, these practical insights will help you unlock more revenue from your existing customer base.
Key takeaways:
- Why getting organized across marketing channels is critical for scale – and the simple tools Nick recommends to coordinate email, SMS, social, and paid media for maximum impact
- How to design "bigger A/B tests" that drive real insights (including one test that recently doubled campaign revenue for a client)
- The counterintuitive reason why adding friction to your email-to-purchase journey could significantly boost conversions
- Why SMS is becoming increasingly crucial as email deliverability tightens, and the exact tactics to build your SMS list without annoying customers
Plus, Nick shares his unconventional "cat keyboard" subject line test that generated unprecedented engagement for a pet brand. Don't miss the bonus segments on advanced segmentation strategies and mobile-first optimization techniques that could unlock hidden revenue in your business.
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Chapters
(00:00) Introduction
(05:09) Organizing Your Email & SMS Strategy
(11:01) Implementing Bigger A/B Tests
(17:59) Being Unique in Your Brand Messaging
(22:14) Leveraging SMS for Enhanced Engagement
(26:20) Bonus Tips for Doubling Email Results
(27:40) Conclusion
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Show Notes:
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Connect With Brett:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thebrettcurry/
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@omgcommerce
- Website: https://www.omgcommerce.com/
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Past guests on eCommerce Evolution include Ezra Firestone, Steve Chou, Drew Sanocki, Jacques Spitzer, Jeremy Horowitz, Ryan Moran, Sean Frank, Andrew Youderian, Ryan McKenzie, Joseph Wilkins, Cody Wittick, Miki Agrawal, Justin Brooke, Nish Samantray, Kurt Elster, John Parkes, Chris Mercer, Rabah Rahil, Bear Handlon, Trevor Crump, Frederick Vallaeys, Preston Rutherford, Anthony Mink, Bill D’Allessandro, Bryan Porter and more.
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Transcript:
Nick:
As we add it and it gets more popular, more and more people are taking us up on those SMS offers.
Brett:
Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the E-Commerce Evolution podcast. I'm your host, Brett Curry, CEO of OMG Commerce. And today we're talking about four ways maybe going to sneak in a couple of bonus ways if we can for how to get the most from what should be your most profitable, most effective channel for acquiring new customers, but also increasing repeat purchases, increasing lifetime value. We're talking about retention, marketing, email plus SMS. I have our resonant expert, our eight year veteran. This guy has been in the D two C space in email marketing space for eight, count him eight years. That is not an old joke. You can tell by looking at him, dude, as young and fit and spry, but he is been at the game a while and so welcome back to the pod email director for om g commerce. Nick Flint. What's up Nick? How you doing?
Nick:
What's up Brett? So apparently established is the new old, since he said eight years, you're pretty established.
Brett:
Established is the new old. But hey, there's only one of us on this call has a little gray, their facial hair and that would not be you. So, but yes, you are established, seasoned, all of that good stuff. Now, before we dive in to these four ways to smash your results or get more profitable, get more effective with your retention marketing in 2025, you just completed something that a lot of people aspire to and this is not your first rodeo, but you just completed a marathon, but not just any old marathon. Nick, where did you run a marathon?
Nick:
That was in the beautiful New York City. Turns out
Brett:
The big apple,
Nick:
Now it's the biggest marathon in the world. So I don't know where I'm supposed to go from here. The biggest am best over 50,000 people. So I got to figure out which one to pick next
Brett:
50,000 people. Do you know where you finished? And it's okay if you don't want to reveal this or where did you finish in that roster of 50,000 people?
Nick:
I think in the late 20 thousands. So maybe 20, 26, 27, 8,000 we're up
Brett:
There. Very respectable and I believe, and you and I were actually just in New York recently had a leadership offsite there, meeting with some partners and with our leadership team. So we were kind of hanging out in NYC, which was a good time. And you revealed to me one of your fastest miles was mile 26, which is crazy. So you saved enough energy to really bust it that final mile. Tell us about that.
Nick:
Yeah, so I have this little TikTok series going on where I do a mile doing different things. So a mile with a weight vest on a mile, pushing a truck a mile while juggling. And one of the ones I haven't done yet is how long does it take to run a mile after running 25 miles? So when that 25 kicked in, I had to book it and get a nice video at the same time. It hurt.
Brett:
That's amazing. So anything for TikTok or the grim, but that final mile after running 25 miles, your 26 mile was like eight minutes, right?
Nick:
Low eight, yeah, it was a tough low eight for sure.
Brett:
Dang. Pretty good, man. Pretty good. So hey, I think you could compare e-commerce and especially if you look at our fiscal year of e-commerce, it's a bit of a marathon and every mile every month is a little bit different. We got to approach it a little bit differently. And so as we're recording this, we're kind in the home stretch of 2024, so we're wanting to maximize what we're doing now, but really our eyes are also on 2025. So let's dive in, Nick, we got four ways to make this the best year yet with your retention marketing. Let's talk about way number one
Nick:
Today we're going to talk about doubling your email and SMS revenue in 2025. This channel is still alive and well, you just got to know how to use it, right? I know you're price spending more on ads than ever before. You're probably spending more on shipping than ever before. You're probably paying your employees more than ever before. So let's go ahead and maximize this to help bring some of that profit margin back into your business.
Brett:
And I think it's really important to note, and that can be a little bit depressing, Nick, if we look at, hey, you're paying more frauds in your before, more for shipping and cost of goods, more for your team, but that's the way business goes, right? It's never going to get cheaper in most cases for most of your business. And so email can be a great adjuster, it can be just a very effective lever to pull to dial up your profits and your business. And I think a lot of brands are just missing out on all the opportunity that's in front of them as it pertains to email.
Nick:
The last leg of that was you should be charging more than you've ever charged before. So toss that on top of everything else. So get those margins back by up and those prices on the site. Absolutely.
First thing you got to do before anything else is just get organized within your business. You want to make sure email and SMS tie in with everything seamlessly. And a couple of ways to do this, the main one is getting a content calendar laid out. You can use notion, you can use Google Calendar, you can use Google Sheet, you can use pen and paper, whatever works for you, but just make sure you have a full picture of everything that's about to happen within your brand. Blog posts, social media posts, product launches, any new ad initiatives. I think of those email and SMS is tied in as well.
Brett:
Yeah. And where do you think most brands fall short here? So you've got a unique perspective, Nick. You audit dozens of Klaviyo accounts every year for some pretty big brands that we talk to. And what are some of issues or the misses that you see when you're auditing accounts as it pertains to being organized?
Nick:
They stay too siloed. The different marketing efforts that a brand could be doing. Sometimes if it's an owner running their own business doing everything, they have all that tracked in their head and they don't necessarily have to have this set up. But the more complex your brand is, you have someone running Facebook, someone running email, someone running your website. You got to make sure everyone's communicating with each other to make sure everyone's aligned and on the same page. And the next thing is getting ahead of the game. A lot of things seem to be very last minute for the brands that I audit, it's like, Hey, this is going out tomorrow. I'm going to get it done tomorrow morning. So it's ready to go, which the more of a heads up that you can give yourself and more of a headstart, the more seamless it'll be when something actually goes live.
Brett:
Yeah, it's really important to note that the structures in the systems and the marketing calendars you had in place at $2 million in revenue are not the same as when you're $10 million in revenue. And the structure you have in place when you're 10 million in revenue is not the same as what you'll need when you're 50 million in revenue or beyond. And I think it's really important to note that this is not just about working smarter, right? We don't work five times harder to go from two to 10 million or 10 times harder than that to go to a hundred million. It's more about getting the right systems, the right communication processes in place, maybe partnering with the right agencies. Quick plug to Nick Flynn and the email team. But yeah, it's about getting organized because this cannot just live in your head as the entrepreneur operator. You got to get your teams in sync.
And yeah, we definitely see this. We have a unique perspective because running Google and YouTube and running Amazon, running email for a lot of brands. And so we see the need to coordinate even within our teams, but a lot of brands are missing that. So any practical tips there? I know you laid out a couple of tools and I know your perspective. My perspective is tools are just tools. Whatever you use, whatever works for you is the best tool. But any tips or tricks to make those tools effective or to make marketing calendars a reality,
Nick:
Start easy. Start with Google Sheets, get that free version up and running before you go into some complex page software. Utilize that free one. You can get a simple dashboard set up and the perfect example would be, we're diving into black Friday this week, so let's pretend you sent out an email saying 20% offsite wide, come and get it. They go to your website, they enter the code hopefully and they check out. But now imagine if your website had the banner that said 20% off the product page is also mentioned that they're posting on social media organically on your stories, getting people to go to the site. And then also your paid ads are also mentioned that 20% off sale, that way if someone's browsing on social, they're going to end up on your site and get reinforced and they're getting the same message across everything. You don't want it to be disjointed.
Brett:
Yes, it's really great where everything is communicating the same thing makes a ton of sense. And so you talk about the calendar, but also KPI tracking and this is something that you do internally for all OMG clients and we can actually look and see all our clients together and see who's really performing, who's lagging, things like that. What are some of the things you recommend getting on that calendar, and then what are the KPIs that you're recommending? We track,
Nick:
Again, keep it simple and straightforward here. Let's say you have eight campaigns lined up for the upcoming month. Those are eight unique emails going out, set up four unique AB tests you want to run for these campaigns. And that way you can use the learning from those for your future campaigns and add that same learning into your flow, all those flows you have up and running. So let's say it's almost unrealistic to keep AB testing every campaign. You got to get some normal ones out there as well just for the sake of the time if it takes a, set them up. So we have four broad tests within those eight campaigns. I just sent out an email today actually showing off one of our recent AB tests and the analogy I used was, if you're a shoe brand and you have a shoe launch coming up, I want some drastic AB tests in here. So I want to have show them the shoe and that variation one of the email V two that your AB testing, don't show them the shoe on one side. Hey, if we show it to them, they're going to like it. They're going to go to the site and buy it on the other side. If you don't show it to them within the email and you make them click through to your website to actually see it, they're getting targeted with a pixel, they're going to hit with all of your flows. Now in the future for all of your future campaigns and the launches for your new shoes, do you want to show it to them or not?
Brett:
Yeah, it's so great. So building in, we can't test everything because done is better than perfect. And if we strive for perfection in everything we do, you're just going to do less stuff and you're going to likely be less effective. So in eight campaigns, yeah, maybe we're running four ab tests. I really like looking at that. We're tracking our KPIs and then that's informing our next round of tests, our next round of campaigns. Super, super smart. Now I believe that kind of leads into one of the next big things to double your results, and that's bigger AB tests, right Nick? So maybe we talk about that next. I think that's a natural tie in to what we just discussed
Nick:
A hundred percent. A lot of times when I'm hopping into accounts and giving some audits, giving some recommendation, as I'm looking through the campaigns or the flows, the AB tests that are set up are two different subject lines that are pretty similar to each other. And the hard part there
Brett:
Is do we want to say big, what's your takeaway at big sale? Or do we want to say huge sale? Let's test big versus huge.
Nick:
And it's like a 0.2% difference. Everything looks the same and you don't actually learn anything from it. So have these broad tests. I'll go back to that shoe example. Within the imagery, should you be showing the shoe by itself? That way you can see the details, you can get a little bit more of an up close look or should you be featuring models wearing the shoes within the emails? Then you can see what it looks like on a person. You can get the outfit inspiration going on, have these broad tests within your campaigns and then transfer that data. I like about three days to pass by to get a fair gauge of enough people have gotten it clicked through and purchased at that point, three days afterwards, pull that data from Klaviyo into your centralized dashboard. That way as you're making your next upcoming campaigns, you can reference all those AB tests from the last one all in one spot. So you can say, okay, what worked in the past and what should I do differently?
Brett:
How do you work through that and determine what should we test or what should we not test? Because there's this old adage, which I think is really false and counterproductive, where it's like you should AB test everything, test everything in your business. And that's just not practical. And I remember the old example in internet marketing 1.0 was like, test the color of your button. Is the green button better or an orange button better? And just see, and that's the kind of stuff they're generally speaking does not yield wins, but how do you decide what to test? I do think in some cases subject line testing does make a lot of sense, but how are you determining, okay, these are the elements that we think are going to move the needle. Let's do an AB test here and let's then get our learnings.
Nick:
So we'll have a broad theory to start with. We'll work with the brand owners, run some different theories or ideas by them, make sure they're on board with it, and then we will run with it from there. And afterwards we'll look at the data to make sure there was enough of a difference between the two of them. For example, for one brand that we just started working with, we had a two x increase on their campaigns. We switched to one test and the test was, and had been using these links on the website that automatically took you to the cart with the product already added to it. So on that logic, hey, let them click on this product, it'll take 'em to the cart automatically and they can easily check out with less clicks. I a hundred percent see the logic there. But instead we took them to the product page to see, hey, how does that compare to taking 'em to the cart?
And that product page brought in twice as much revenue than taking 'em directly to the cart with the yeah, literally a two XI was surprised. It's crazy. And the difference I can see there is the people who haven't brought this product yet, bought this product yet, it's giving 'em a lot more information on that product page. If there's any kind of other callouts like that free shipping threshold of the money back guarantee or the product specs or if there's an upsell process after they add it to the cart. All that was getting skipped by taking 'em directly to checkout.
Brett:
Yeah, it's really great. And then I think part of this Nick is looking at, hey, what are our core metrics and where are we maybe off a little bit? So maybe you look at performance historically and you think click-through rate is a little bit low, right? We're not getting as many people as I would expect to click through on this email. So that's when you look at, well, what if I do something radical and not show them the shoe? What if I just make it all about kind of intrigue or we're just making them curious? And so we're using curiosity as a tactic to get them to click. Or maybe in this case you're looking at it and you're saying, okay, a lot of people are clicking and we've certainly made it convenient for them to check out, but fewer people than I would expect are actually converting. So why are they not converting? Well, they're probably not converting because they're not convinced or because they need more information or because of some of the reasons. So yeah, let's change the page we're sending them to and see if that makes a difference. So I really like that. I think you've got to look at the data from the data form a hypothesis from the hypothesis then or thesis, then you create the AB test and then you take your learnings and you go from there. It's really, really smart.
Nick:
And when you're organized, you can let some of this stuff play out. A lot of the times, if you're last minute and you watch that shoe, you're going to say, shoe's live, come and get it in the subject line. Picture of shoe is here, come and get it. That's you. Don't take you. Exactly. Yeah, you're rushing it. You're trying to get these sales up. So with that curiosity thing that you mentioned, I won't even tell them what we just did. So for the AB test that I sent out an email for earlier today, I said, Hey, this campaign at two x, the client's revenue and this campaign, because we ran a test, if you want to see what that test was apply to me, I'll give you all the juicy details. And that way for all of the potential clients out there, I've now peaked their curiosity. I'm now going to get that conversation started and I can send them a more in-depth breakdown of those details.
Brett:
That's great. And in that case, maybe you'll get fewer people responding than maybe would've just clicked or something. But in this case you're like, let's see if we can get more interactions, let's see if we can get more conversations going. And that was kind of the goal. So really smart. Love that. Any other tips on bigger AB tests before we move on to the next way to double your results?
Nick:
Yeah, this one actually just started using recently. I'm sure a lot of you out there started using AI chat GBT and clog to help with your email campaign creation. And instead of me feeding it the two ideas I wanted to test out like, hey, write this campaign twice, focus on urgency for one and focus on the vegan aspect of our brand for the other. Instead of doing something like that, I would say, give me four unique value props. Write four campaigns for it. And then I kind of picked two that I think could work well. So instead of you coming up with the tests, two tests, use AI to help you with that.
Brett:
Yeah, lean on ai, man. AI should be your primary research assistant test assistant. You should start using it and everything. And quick plug for another episode that I did episode with Russ Henneberry on how to use AI to improve your marketing results. I've already gotten tremendous feedback on that episode, so go back and check that out. So alright, the two ways we've talked about so far to double your email results, one, get organized, two bigger AB tests. What's next?
Nick:
You got to be got to be unique as a brand. Get rid of all the default stuff that you see in Klaviyo. That's the lazy way out and it's not going to have a good impact for your brand. You left this behind how many different brands are using that because the default Klaviyo subject line, get rid of that. You left this behind and really lean into your brand voice as some products are becoming more of a commodity. There's a lot of people selling hats out there, there's a lot of people selling shirts. What can you do to help your brand stand out, lean on your strong suits.
Brett:
Examples there examples of how do you weave personality brand, how do you weave that into your marketing?
Nick:
So within those subject lines, keep them focused on the products that you are selling. If you are a camping brand and instead of your abandoned cart email saying You left this behind every other brand is doing, say going camping soon. Now in the inbox, I'm like, oh yeah, I am going camping soon. That's why I was looking at the tent. I should probably go buy that now so it can be here in time for my trip. Small things like that can help you stand out. You can develop your brand voice, how you're talking to people on social media. You don't have to have a separate voice. I feel like people default to professionalism when it comes to writing emails. I'm not sure why. It'll be fun and goofy and people will engage with them on social. And then when it comes to writing these emails, they kind of just go back to these safe defaults and they're not leaning into it. So figure out what your brand voice is or what you want it to be and make sure it's the same across all the platforms you're promoting yourself on.
Brett:
It's really good advice. I don't know why we sometimes lean into more formal communications when we get into email marketing, but in general it doesn't work, right? You do want that same voice, that same if it's whimsical or fun on social, use that in email. If it's a little bit irreverent and funny in social, use that in email if it's driven and in your face and performance. If you're like a sports brand or something, use that in email. I really like that advice. Don't shift the tone of your messaging just to fit some idea you have about what email marketing should be. You be unique, stand out. Where should someone look? How should they evaluate what's going on in their account to understand, hey, these are the areas where I'm just boilerplate copying what Klaviyo recommends versus where am I being me?
Nick:
So you can check into your flows. I would say look at those first. See what the current flow setup is, and you can look at your history of changes and see what was the original subject line here and what did I end up changing that to? Did I play it safe and stick to it? One of the best campaigns I ever sent out was for a cat brand and the subject line, I just mushed my keyboard and I just smashed my fingers on it. So the subject line made zero sense. When they opened that email, it was, sorry, my cat was walking across while I was trying to type this, but come check out this thing that we just launched. Dude, it's so good. And they got a ton of replies because they're a cat brand, they're fun, they're playful. A lot of the owners appreciated that. And now it makes sense. Stand out.
Brett:
We could all, if you're a cat lover, whichever one on your email list was, they've all had their cat walk across their keyboard that immediately endears them to you. It's like, yes, we're cat owners. That's what happens. And what a fun email and what a bizarre subject line, right? You're looking through your list of subject lines like, hey, just following up and our event next Tuesday and blah blah, blah. And then you just see the string of letters, the string of nonsense that you pretty much have to click on.
Nick:
Yeah, I mushed it and it didn't look random enough, so I had to do a couple to make it look random enough.
Brett:
That is awesome. That is awesome. Okay, cool. So we've got three ways to double our email here. We're getting organized, we're running bigger AB tests, we're being unique to us, we're being our brand. We're not being boilerplate. What's number four?
Nick:
This one might be the most impactful, so maybe we should have started with it. But hey, if you're hanging around this long, then you're in for a treat. The last one here, if you have not leaned into this yet, I strongly recommend that you do in 2025. And I'm talking about SMS as the email providers, the inboxes are getting more and more strict with who they are, letting into that main inbox and not sending to the promo tab even within Klaviyo, they're recommending now you stick to that 30 day engaged audience. It's going to be more and more important to own more of your customer's information, know their email, know their SMS, know their address, get them pixeled on your site too. And SMS is one that you can control because you know that they're going to see the text message whenever it comes through. You're not guaranteed that they're going to see the email when it comes
Brett:
Through.
Nick:
The best way to get started with this, I know it's kind of intimidating. There's new rules and regulations and I don't want to annoy people. There's a lot of pushback that I'll get when I'm recommending this. The best way to get started is adding the SMS signup as an optional step within your pop-up. Instantly. Some people are going to be comfortable with that and give you the number off the bat. Add it in a checkout as well. Another optional thing. That way people are opting in to hear from you because they wanted that discount that you offer them on that pop-up and they actually like your brand because they're buying from you. So you get this nice warm audience to start with. That's the first two steps and start building up your list from there.
Brett:
And do you recommend sometimes offering like, Hey, for the biggest discounts or the best deals maybe is a way you want to word it or for to find out first about new releases, big drops, big events, whatever. Give us your phone number as well. Give us your mobile. Do you deploy that tactic?
Nick:
There's three main tactics that we'll use the escalated discount. So hey, 10% off of your email, the next step they see 15% off a phone number. Sure, why not? Let's save a little bit extra money. The next one is giving them that exclusive early access. And what's nice about this step is you can also target your current email subscribers. So if you have an upcoming launch coming out, a lot of times we're hiding the popups from everyone. So either popups from all of our current email subscribers because we don't want them to see this 10% discount again. So you make a new one for your upcoming drop coming out December 1st, sign up to be the first to know about our upcoming drop. December 1st. Put your phone number here. That way all those email subscribers who you already have are going to see this pop up as well.
Brett:
It's really smart and could not agree more. Email is going to run into more and new issues as we go. Mailboxes, inboxes are full, things like that. It's still going to be a relevant channel for the foreseeable future and beyond. But you got to add SMS, and I know a lot of people have resisted a surprising number of quality brands have resisted, delayed, maybe halfheartedly tried and abandoned SMS marketing, but if you're not running it and not running it effectively, you are leaving so much money on the table. In fact, if you can just kind of, and I know this is putting you on the spot a little bit, Nick, but when we add SMS to our email clients, what kind of lift do we often see on the retention side of marketing?
Nick:
It's funny because as we add it and it gets more popular, more and more people are taking us up on those SMS offers compared to some of the email ones. So it's almost becoming more popular. A reasonable split between the two channels is like 80% email, 20% of revenue coming from out of those. So if you have 30% coming from email and SMS combined, about 24% of that will be coming from email. About 6% from SMS. So if you're doing a hundred KA month right now, if you fire up SMS, you could probably expect to lift about five to 10 KA month.
Brett:
Love it. Love it. Really, really powerful. So okay, let's do this, Nick. We've got about two minutes left in the pod or something like that. If you had to rapid fire quickly come up with two additional ways to double your email results in 2025, what would they be?
Nick:
Two extra ways. They're getting a little bonus here, aren't they? Bonus? First one I would say is you need an air horn bonus. I would say dive into segmentation and let people hear from you on a very specific level. Easiest one is past customers versus current customers. That's an easy segment to break off. Talk to your current customers differently than you're talking to people who have never purchased from you before. Or if you have a hero product, people who have not gotten that hero product yet, try to sell them on it because it's their most popular option that they've avoided up to this point. And anyone who has purchased your hero product, cross-sell them on the other lineup. Even call out like, Hey, if you love the running shoe, try out these socks as well.
Brett:
Better segmentation. I love it. All right, one more. Make it quick.
Nick:
After you get deep with that segmentation, you want to focus on mobile first. A lot of people are on their phones a lot more than last year. Even more are going to be on next year. So just double check, triple check that everything that you're sending out through email or through SMS just looks good on their phone.
Brett:
Mobile first. Love it. So Nick, I know there's going to be a lot of people listening or watching to this that think, okay, I'm likely missing something. I'm missing opportunities. There's more I could be tapping into more I could be doing. And they may be saying to themselves, Hey, it's time that I talked to a pro, Simon that I talked to mg. I want Nick Flint to look at my email setup. What can we do for people, those who want to upgrade their email and SMS approach, what can we do for them?
Nick:
We have this nice little checklist that we put together. It's actually the top test that you could be running. I know it was one of the first things we focused on today is those AB tests. And you were asking what specific ones can they run? We knocked out 50 of the biggest AB tests that we've ever done, put it onto a spreadsheet. We can give you that for the price of $0, $0. Just hit me up through email, nick@omgcommerce.com, and I'll go ahead and send you that full checklist, free of charge.
Brett:
Love it. And then we're also happy to dig in, audit your account for qualifying brands. We can get in there, show you what you're missing, show you exactly what we would do for you to take your results up a notch. And hey, I know just from talking to dozens and dozens of brands, I'm very connected, dozen agency owners. Profitability is hard, right? The D two C game, the retail game in general is hard. And so you need email and SMS to be firing on all cylinders for you to reach your profitability targets. And hey, maybe you can go loan and that's the perfect fit for you. And if so, that's awesome. Hopefully Nick just gave you a couple of nuggets that you can use to supercharge your results. But if not, then we'd love to chat. And so reach out to us, omg commerce.com, click on the let's chat button or let's talk or whatever it says, I dunno. And then we'll go from there. Or email Nick directly, nick@omgcommerce.com. Nick Flint, ladies and gentlemen, Nick SuperPhone as always, thanks for coming on, man.
Nick:
I'll go ahead and hit the outro button here. Bye.
Brett:
We got to add that. That's so good. So appreciate it, Nick Golden as always. And also as always, thank you for tuning in. We'd love to hear from you. Leave us that review on iTunes. If you've not done that, let know what you'd like to hear more of on the show. We'd love your feedback. And with that, until next time, thank you for listening.
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